Mac Minis as VSL Farms: Audio Routing
November 7th, 2006 by Jerome
The third part of our series of articles on the Mac Minis as VSL Farms concept (following “An Overview” and “Spreading Your Samples“) is about how to get your sounds out from your slaves back to your sequencer.
There are currently two schools of thought on how to transport audio from a slave to a host; using good ol’ analog or digital audio cables, or streaming the signal via your ethernet network (with programs like FX Teleport or Wormhole). Let’s focus on the Ethernet solution first.
Audio Streaming with Wormhole
The basic idea is to do with audio what MidiOverLan does with Midi. In the Windows world, this is achieved with a program called FX Teleport; on the Mac, with Wormhole 2. Wormhole is actually a plug-in that you open up in both your slave and your sequencer (on an Aux track). The audio is routed out of your slave, through the network, to your sequencer. The good thing is that because your farm has to be connected to the network anyway, the investment is limited to buying the actual plug-in ($49.95). However, while some users report that they had no problem with it, many others had various issues and were never able to make it work properly.
In many ways, it is a bit early to use Wormhole in a professional environment. Unfortunately, even if you do manage do get everything working fine, there is no sure way to know if it will stay stable or not. Somes users reported that, for no apparent reasons, the connection would suddenly stop – to come back again later, without any specific change. Or, the latency would be fine one day, and way too high the following day. Issues like these would not necessarily be such a problem if the customer support was good. Alas, a quick look at Plasq’s message board will show that questions rarely get a quick and definitive answer (when they do get an answer at all).
At this point, Wormhole is a great piece of software but still not reliable enough for daily use in a professional studio. If Plasq is serious about this app, they really need to go through an intensive testing phase on many more configurations, and to fix the bugs which need to be urgently addressed. While streaming audio through the network is definitely the future, Wormhole 2 is not yet the perfect solution – especially compared to the stability of most audio interfaces. But I am sure stability will get improved in upcoming versions.
* * *
There are actually two solution for making an audio connection between your slaves and your host. The first one is to use the standard S/PDIF (one stereo channel) optical output of your Mac Mini. The other one is to get an ADAT (four stereo channels) FireWire interface for each slave, which will in turn give you more flexibility in the mix. So let’s go into some details.
S/PDIF Connection
The Mac Mini’s standard audio connectors are called Combo Jacks – they are both analog and digital. These connectors accept standard electrical audio cables with a 3.5 mm (1/8”) stereo plug (ie. “mini-jack”) and standard TOSLINK optical cables with a 3.5 mm optical plug.
However, audio interfaces with multiple S/PDIF inputs are rare – let’s even say, non-existent. So, the only way to get the signal into your sequencer is to convert the S/PDIF, 2-channel signal, to an ADAT, 8-channel signal. That’s what the DMX16 and DMX32 interfaces by Friend-Chip (a German company) are for.
The Friend-Chip DMX16 and DMX 32 are modular interfaces which can convert various signal formats. In our case, the interface will convert four S/PDIF signals to one ADAT signal, which are then routed to the sequencer’s audio interface (here, a MOTU 2408 MkIII, which has three ADAT inputs).
Connecting 10 Mac Minis via S/PDIF
If you have up to four Mac Minis, you will need one ADAT and one S/PDIF module (see below). If you have five to eight Mac Minis, you will need two ADAT and two S/PDIF modules. And if you have nine to twelve Mac Minis, you will need three ADAT and three S/PDIF modules.
The S/PDIF and ADAT modules
The DMX16 (front)
The DMX16 (back) and four modules
The DMX 32 (front)
The DMX 32 (back) and eight modules
As you can see, since the DMX16 can only hold a total of four modules, you will need a DMX32 if you have more than eight Mac Minis. Clocking is done through the Mac Mini’s S/PDIF input.
Not only does this solution bring no noticeable latency (the company reports less 3ms), but it also saves a lot of space and clutter since you will only need the Friend-Chip interface for all your slaves.
ADAT Connection
Going ADAT requires to add a FireWire audio interface to each slave. Currently, the cheapest ADAT interface is the M-Audio ProFire. It offers up to four ADAT outputs (for a total of 32 stereo channels!), but you will most probably use only one. This still gives you four stereo channels, which should be enough for decent sub-mixes.
The M-Audio ProFire
* * *
All in all, it all depends on how much flexibility over the mix you wish to have. Going S/PDIF will only give you a stereo channel out of each slaves – limiting your sub-mixes to half an orchestra section, while going ADAT will give you a stereo pair for each player.
In terms of cost, the S/PDIF solution comes down cheaper, with a price tag of about $250 per Mac Mini; the ADAT solution requires one ProFire per slave (± $350)… and also one ADAT connector per slave on the sequencer’s side. So, while you could do with only one 2408 in the S/PDIF solution, the ADAT solution will mean buying at least two or three of them. Something to take into account, since it will add about $1500 to the final cost.
Related Article: Mac Minis as VSL Farms: An Overview
Related Article: Mac Minis as VSL Farms: Spreading Your Samples
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37 Responses to “Mac Minis as VSL Farms: Audio Routing”
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Hi Jerome –
Question about the last paragraph there….where are you finding mac minis for $250?? On mac.com they are $800 and if you upgrade to 2GB RAM they are $1000 each.
Hi Nick,
In the last paragraph, I am comparing the “per-computer” cost of the each solutions. This of course does not include the actual computer, since you need to buy it in both case…
I talk about the actual computer price in my previous article on the subject (“An Overview”).
Thanks Jerome, this site is very informative. I just purchased the whole symphonic cube and not being much of a techie, it’s a bit daunting.
This may seem stupid, but how do you get your G5 with Sequencer (logic) to recognize the other 8 mac minis? Meaning how are they connected (not audio but…computer-wise i guess)?
Thanks again,
Nick
One more question – how do you manage clocking thur the s/pdif inputs?
The Sequencer and Slaves need to be connected via regular MIDI. The best solution is to use MIDIOverLan (http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm).
Once it’s setup, you trigger your samples on each slaves via MIDI.
The clocking is done automatically as soon as you get a S/PDIF signal in, providing that your original source is clocked (S/PDIF and ADAT signal transfer audio and clocking information)
Hey Jerome
Rob Pottorf from the VSL forum…I need your advice and help. I’m looking at the “Friendchip” system. I read your artical above and think I have a handle on it but can u give me a brief description on what I need to get this up and running. I am using a G5 Dual 2 gig with 6 Mac Minis.
Any help would be extremely appreciated!!!
Thanks Jerome!
Hi Rob,
for your setup, you need a DMX16, 2 S/PDIF (“MOP4″) and 2 ADAT (“MQA”) modules. You will also need 12 optical cables and 12 “Mini-Toslink” adapters (like this: http://image.bizrate.co.uk/resize?sq=100&uid=306523305&mid=82383)
Finally, you also need to get an ADAT audio interface for your sequencer. The MOTU 2408 mkIII is a good choice, since it’s PCI based, and the price tag is decent. You’ll need four optical cables to connect the DMX16 to the 2408.
Since you only have 6 Mac Minis, you’ll be able to expand later with two more slaves if you need to, without changing any of the hardware (the DMX16 has 8 S/PDIF i/o).
Remember however that this will only give you a stereo output out of each Mac Mini. If you want more control over the mix, you’ll need to go ADAT for each slave.
Don’t hesitate to ask if you have more questions.
Jerome
Hey Jerome, Incredible article on using mac mini’s as samplers for gigastudio. you really shed some light on this subject.
I have a question about the first example of using the mini’s built’in S/PDIF port to rout the audio from the mini to the main sequencer Mac. Given the fact that S/PDIF only has one sterio channel wouldn’t it be better to just use the audio output from the mac mini to go straight into the I/O on the main sequencer mac??
I’m having a hard time seeing why you have to go through all that equipment DMX16, MKIII, est when you can get the same result out of the audio jack to a I/O like m-audio delta 1010 on your main sequencer mac…
thanks for the read.
Nathan
Very interesting indeed!!
I may go this route.
I’ll probably start with 2 minis and use the analog outs for now.
What do you do for monitors, keyboard, and mice?
Also, If I use EWQL Platinum, does that use more RAM or Drive speed?
THank you
Nathan,
You are correct – if you are only using one Mac Mini, then you can just connect it to the optical i/o of your sequencer.
However, in a “farm” situation, you are using more than one computer. Hence the need for an audio interface with more than one I/O.
Jerome
Hi Dave,
If you can, try to use the optical I/O instead of analog. The analog connector on the back of the Mac Mini is a standard mini-jack… not really the best for pro audio!
For monitor, keyboard and mice, you can use various versions of VNC, like Apple Remote Desktop, to remotely control the slaves through the ethernet network. Or you can use a separate monitor with a VGA switch.
Jerome
Jerome – 2 questions:
First, I’m thinking of ditching my PCs and going entirely Mac-based. How do you handle signal processing on the multiple machines? I’ve got Altiverb running on my master, but how would you implement reverb on, let’s say 8 machines? Do you need to buy 8 copies of Altiverb?
Second, when you upgrade the internal drive to SATA, do you partition the drive into two parts for system and audio, or just leave it all as one partition?
Hi Kevin,
The best way would be to have Altiverb only on your host computer; you will use the “Send” from your Aux tracks in your sequencer (with the stereo signal coming from the slaves) to route the path to a Bus with Altiverb.
From past experiences and what I have read, partitionning one drive under Mac Os X is not going to give you the same performance boosts as under Windows XP (their file management systems, NTFS and HFS+, are very different from each other). Thus, partionning or not your Mac Mini’s drive shouldn’t change much.
Jerome
I’m wondering if fx-teleport 2 works with dp??
As far as I know, FX Teleport is still not compatible with Mac OS X, so it’s not possible to use it with Digital Performer.
Jerome
Thanks for all this hard work being shared Jerome, I was wondering whether you had any thoughts considering Apple’s upgrade of the Mac Mini, Plasq’s dropping any development (fixing bugs etc.) of Wormhole – any alternatives? Also whether you still think the Mac Minis are still cheaper than the Mac Pro solution, considering the RAM and internal hard-drive upgrades (or added external ones), plus the ADATs plus the pro-fires (if not better interfaces). I’d just like to know how you feel about all this after the IntelCore2Duo introduction, etc.
Well done,
E.
Hi Errikos -
Apple’s upgrade for the Mac MIni makes it an even more interesting computer to use as a host. If you replace the hard drive and get 3GB of RAM, you’ll have an amazing yet tiny computer in your studio
Plasq’s dropping of Wormhole is a big deal for many people who relied on that app to transfer audio through the networkl. Unfortunately unless Plasq fnds some company to sell it to, nothing will happen on that side… the only alternative in the Mac world is to use good ol’ wires and audio interfaces.
The Mac Minis are still far cheaper than a Mac Pro solution, especially considering the new 3GB of Ram upgrade from OtherWorldComputing.com.
The ADATs ports (with Pro-Fires or some other audio interface) would still be required on a Mac Pro anyway. So in the end, you would still do less and for more money with a dedicated Mac Pro than with a dedicated Mac Mini. (As a host– as a sequencer, of course, a Mac Pro is much, much better than a Mini).
Jerome
OK, I’ve got Plogue Bidule and yep, it is a bit strange. At this point I’m a bit stumped. Is it possible to get more than 16 MIDI channels through Apple’s MIDI Network (or is that why you use MIDIOverLan)? And once I figure THAT issue out, do I use the MIDI switcher 2 ports in Plogue Bidule to get the MIDI info into my various VSTs?
Thanks for your input!
Thanks Jerome, for this great article!
I am still confused about the Mac Mini’s built-in optical output.
1) Will the Mac Mini lock to Wordclock In via it’s Optical Input
2) If you are going to use the input and output with standard spdif connectors, do you know of a cable adapter for standard SPDIF (“RCA” type connectors) to the Apple optical jack?
Thanks very much!
Dan,
I am not sure if you can create more than one Apple Midi Network port. Anyway, you have to create them each time you start the computer, and to make sure the connection is active between the slave and the host. It really is a pain; MIDIOverLan is much more reliable and easier to set up (and you set it up once and for all).
Once MIDI Over Lan is installed, the ports you created will show up in Plogue’s MIDI Inputs list.
Jerome
R Korsakov,
1) Yes
2) You can find coaxial-to-optical S/PDIF converters pretty easily. Check out http://www.sweetwater.com for example. Don’t forget to get an optical cable which has a 3.5 mm optical plug on one side, or it won’t fit into the Mac Mini’s analog/digital connector.
Jerome
Hi Jerome,
Do you think it’s likely in the near future that one power mac g5 of higher processing power than what we’ve seen to date will be able to handle the symphonic cube on it’s own? I’m wondering whether to wait to buy a top spec g5 (when this situation occurs) or invest in your farm solutions.
thanks
Hi Terry – sorry for the late response.
It seems most manufacturers and software developers are now making the jump to 64-bit so it is very likely that it will (very) soon be possible to use one fully equiped Mac Pro (8-core, 16GB of memory) for the whole Symphonic Cube.
However, please remember that the phrase “whole symphonic cube” will never be fully accurate since that collection contains about 600GB of samples. So you’ll never be able to load everything! But you should be able to load all the samples I am talking about in that page: http://www.createfilmscores.net/?page_id=17
Some tests need to be run though – to make sure everything can play fine on only one computer. There’s no point in loading 16GB of samples if your CPU can’t handle them!
Jerome
Hi Jerome,
Thanks for the reply. Good to know it’s looking very likely that one top spec computer will do the job in the near future.
Terry
Jerome-
Thanks so much for all this great information.
I’m currently in the process of ramping up my Mac-Logic Pro set up. Switched to Logic 8, as well as the new Intel Mac just recently, and am still navigating all the headaches with UB plug ins (all the libraries that used the Kompakt Player on PPC), etc.
I finally invested in VSL and have been exploring the best way to set this up, which is how I found your site. While the MacMini farm sounds intriguing – most of those posts were from a year ago. I’m curious you’re thoughts now…
I’m NOT in the position where I need the entire orchestral arsenal always loaded in the background, I just need more polyphony. Is there any scenario where I can hook up my G5 PPC to my new MacBookPro that will at the least accomplish that? (I have one RME Fireface 800). I know linking these two computers is far from state-of-the-art – but is it worth me even trying to figure it out – while I wait for the 64 BIT, 8 core options referenced above…?
Thanks much – and sorry if this is a more remedial question to your other readers…
Cheers – Cory
hi Cory, i think its very possible to hook up ur g5 with ur macbook pro, just use midi over lan for midi and ur audio interface to hook up audio with the 2 coms, u should be able to get what u need. Your post is very valid, i would like to know Jerome’s thoughts now with evyrthing almost going 64-bit, mac oct cores, 16gb ram. Although this is a very ideal and practical situation in the near future, it MIGHT still not meet the demands of REALLY REALLY power hungry composer IMO
…
Hi Cory,
Yes, multiple-core computers and 64-bit are going to change the way we manage our samples.
At this point, it is already possible to have a fairly complete orchestra loaded on the same 8-core Mac Pro you use as a sequencer.
The Mac Mini concept was (and still is) a “workaround” for using all the instruments from Vienna Instruments, including stuff like Bass flute, Contrabass Tuba, etc. If you wanted to load ALL the instruments and articulations my article talk about, you would probably still need at least 2 8-core Mac Pros. The cost/power ratio would still be in favor of the Mac Minis (which are MUCH faster now than when I wrote the article).
However, there is of course a lot of advantages in using only one or two computers instead of eight.
Eventually we will be able to install a fairly complex orchestra in one machine and you will be done. I myself would still favor having one computer just for sounds, and one just a sequencer – I like the idea of dedicating the CPU of one computer to a specific task; but this might not be necessary once we get to 16 or 32-core computers with 64GB of memory available.
To answer your question regarding the MBP, yes it is completely doable and I think worth the time to figure it out. I think there are still at least 6 more months before we can really start digging into 64-bit (at least on Mac).
Jerome
Hi Jerome,
Sorry for sounding a bit naive but could you please explain the reference to 64 bit above in more detail? Is this to do with the computer manufacturers or the software developers?
thanks
terry
hi
with the release of the latest 64bit macs,cant all this be done with a high speed mac and VI instruments?-as they have the ability to kickout unused samples after the performance, saving memory.The peripheral hardware costs of linking the mini macs toghether and the extra memory,hard drive upgrades etc required, surely makes it less cost effective?
Am considering a quad core 3ghz mac but am tempted by having dedicated farm machines,but with my complete lack of tech savvy,it seems a routing nightmare!!!
Also, running Logic 8 as recording software and Sibelius 5 as arranging software in the single mac…could this be done? and with the current state of the 64bit support, can it now really take advantage of the above 4gig ceiling of 32bit systems using VI and eastwest platinum 64bit libraries??
:0
Hi Terry,
64bit has to do with both the hardware and the software. Most (if not all) of today’s CPUs are 64-bit (or some 32-64bit mixture), so that’s not a problem. However, to take advantage of the new memory management offered by 64-bit computing, we need all the software we use to be completely 64 bit. That means: The OS, the audio drivers, the audio software (sequencer, plug-ins). Until that happens, you can’t do full 64-bit.
A good example is VSL’s plugin “Vienna Ensemble” which is 64 bit on Windows XP 64 or Vista 64. If you run a 64bit sequencer in a 64-bit environment, then you’re able to load it as a plugin, and thus in theory able to load hundreds of instruments in it.
Hi Brian,
yes, this is actually possible now, not really thanks to 64-bit, but rather because the newest Mac Pro are much faster than they were when I wrote this series of articles. As a matter of fact, we replaced our 6 Mac Minis and one Powermag G5 Dual 2Ghz with one Mac Pro 3.2Ghz. It’s loaded with 10GB of samples, and we can’t tell the difference with the Mac Mini setup. Tells you how fast this machine is!
I still strongly recommend having one computer serves as the host for your sequencer and various plug-ins; and having a second slave computer for all your other samples. A dual Mac Pro setup seems to be the perfect combo!
Jerome
HI Jerome, im currently going down this path, running giga on a macbook pro (running XP) and logic on a Macpro i was planning on using the sp/dif output in the macbookpro into a digi002R which works for everything except giga as the audio drivers apple supply for their windows compatilibity are not GSIF certified therefore gigastudio only boots in rewire mode.. the only way i can see to get buy this is to buy a cheap firewire M-audio box and use that instead of the onboard audio. can you shed any light onto this? maybe there are other drivers available that make the onboard audio Gsif compatible?
thanx
James
Hi James,
The only way will be to buy a GSIF compatible card. I am not aware of any GSIF drivers for integrated audio chipset on WIndows, even less for Mac since Gigastudio is Windows-only…
Best of luck,
Jerome
Hi Jerome
I decided to bite the bullet and get a new Mac Pro 3.2Ghz 8 core with 8 gig of RAM. I’m running Leopard 5.3 with logic Pro 8. I’ve got Vienna instruments and the East West platinum bundle which needs Kompakt 3 to run. Just wondered if you have any suggestions re. setup in order to maximize my system.
Thanks
Terry
Hi Terry,
If you load Vienna Ensemble as a plug-in in Logic 8, you won’t be able to load more than ±3GB of samples. To load more than that, you’ll have to run VE as a stand-alone application, connect it via MIDI (software or hardware), and the re-route the audio back into Logic.
Kontakt has its own memory pool so you’ll be able to load about ±3GB of samples inside Logic as well.
Best,
Jerome
Hi Jerome,
Thanks for your reply. I’ve noticed that East West are bringing out a new 64 bit Play engine for the East West platinum bundle which I purchased. If I use this as a plugin in logic will it give me more instrument power?
Also with reference to your last email I’ve only been use to using vienna instruments as a plugin in logic. Could you give me more info on how to setup up Vienna ensemble as a standalone within the same computer. I use a Digi 002 interface which can take the optical outs from my Mac Pro. I also have an AMT 8 midi interface. How can I make use of this equipment?
Thanks
Terry
Hi Terry,
unfortunately, Play is still 32-bit for Mac. Once the 64-bit version will be released, and providing it opens up its own memory pool, you should be able to load as much as you want.
I’m thinking about writing an article about launching mutliple instances of Vienna Ensemble as a stand alone and then outlining the necessary audio and midi routing. Probably in the next few days.
Basically you’ll have to use the MIDI IAC Driver to route midi from Logic to your Standalone; and then as far as the audio signal goes, you’ll have to go “out” of your audio interface and then back “in”. An ADAT or S/PDIF digital connection is the best choice for that, of course.
J.